#46582: "ELO adaptation to the number of players is screwed badly"
ماذا حدث؟ يرجى اختيار من أدناه
ماذا حدث؟ يرجى اختيار من أدناه
يرجى التحقق مما إذا كان هناك بالفعل تقرير عن نفس الموضوع
إذا كانت الإجابة بنعم ، يرجى التصويت لهذا التقرير. يتم إعطاء التقارير ذات أكبر عدد من الأصوات الأولوية!
# | Status | Votes | Game | Type | Title | Last update |
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وصف مفصل
• يرجى نسخ / لصق رسالة الخطأ التي تراها على الشاشة ، إن وجدت.
n/a• يرجى توضيح ما تريد القيام به ، ماذا فعلت وما حدث
For instance:
boardgamearena.com/table?table=192563240
Hover the mouse over the 1st and and 4th player scores, do the math.
4 players games for downforce, if you do the sum, the ELO gains for the 1st player are multiplied in a hidden manner by 0.75
But the delta for the 2nd and 3rd players are not multiplied and the losses for the 4th player are not multiplied either.
To be 100% clear, this has nothing to do with the K factor. The problem isn't that the sum is not 0, I'm fully aware that this is normal. The problem is how the extra player count adapter is handled AND that it is not even shown or explained.
It is just plain wrong in the example above, as there can be any reason why the first player would have a 0.75 factor but the last player wouldn't.
--------------
But it is also wrong more generally speaking.
For instance, in a 6th player Race for the galaxy game, the player number factor is balanced I think (same for 1st and last player, if I remember correctly) but that still isn't ok. It should really be the same for all players. As it is, it is a big ELO tax on higher ranked players playing with lower ranked people which is not a good thing in terms of website dynamics; you do not want to discourage high ranked players from playing with lower ranked players.
As a 500+ player in a 6 players RFTG against average players, you gain like 4 ELO when winning (a 6 players game) and lose like 12 for being second. That is NOT normal and this because the ELO score for the first player is much much more reduced than the score for the second player.
---------------------
My solution:
1) The hidden players# factor should not be hidden and be DISPLAYED in the ELO change summary.
2) The hidden players# factor should be the same for everyone in the game regardless of their final position in the game.
• ما هو متصفحك؟
Google Chrome v91
• يرجى نسخ / لصق النص المعروض باللغة الإنجليزية بدلاً من لغتك. إذا كان لديك لقطة شاشة لهذا الخطأ (ممارسة جيدة) ، يمكنك استخدام Imgur.com لتحميله ونسخ / لصق الرابط هنا.
n/a• هل هذا النص متاح في translation system ؟ إذا كانت الإجابة بنعم ، فهل تمت ترجمتها لأكثر من 24 ساعة؟
For instance:
boardgamearena.com/table?table=192563240
Hover the mouse over the 1st and and 4th player scores, do the math.
4 players games for downforce, if you do the sum, the ELO gains for the 1st player are multiplied in a hidden manner by 0.75
But the delta for the 2nd and 3rd players are not multiplied and the losses for the 4th player are not multiplied either.
To be 100% clear, this has nothing to do with the K factor. The problem isn't that the sum is not 0, I'm fully aware that this is normal. The problem is how the extra player count adapter is handled AND that it is not even shown or explained.
It is just plain wrong in the example above, as there can be any reason why the first player would have a 0.75 factor but the last player wouldn't.
--------------
But it is also wrong more generally speaking.
For instance, in a 6th player Race for the galaxy game, the player number factor is balanced I think (same for 1st and last player, if I remember correctly) but that still isn't ok. It should really be the same for all players. As it is, it is a big ELO tax on higher ranked players playing with lower ranked people which is not a good thing in terms of website dynamics; you do not want to discourage high ranked players from playing with lower ranked players.
As a 500+ player in a 6 players RFTG against average players, you gain like 4 ELO when winning (a 6 players game) and lose like 12 for being second. That is NOT normal and this because the ELO score for the first player is much much more reduced than the score for the second player.
---------------------
My solution:
1) The hidden players# factor should not be hidden and be DISPLAYED in the ELO change summary.
2) The hidden players# factor should be the same for everyone in the game regardless of their final position in the game.
• ما هو متصفحك؟
Google Chrome v91
• يرجى توضيح اقتراحك بدقة وإيجاز بحيث يكون من السهل قدر الإمكان فهم ما تعنيه.
n/a• ما هو متصفحك؟
Google Chrome v91
• ما الذي تم عرضه على الشاشة عندما تم حظرك (شاشة فارغة؟ جزء من واجهة اللعبة؟ رسالة خطأ؟)
n/a• ما هو متصفحك؟
Google Chrome v91
• أي جزء من القواعد تم مخالفته في تصميم التبني لدى BGA
n/a• هل انتهاك القواعد مرئي عند إعادة اللعب؟ إذا كانت الإجابة بنعم ، فبأي رقم؟
For instance:
boardgamearena.com/table?table=192563240
Hover the mouse over the 1st and and 4th player scores, do the math.
4 players games for downforce, if you do the sum, the ELO gains for the 1st player are multiplied in a hidden manner by 0.75
But the delta for the 2nd and 3rd players are not multiplied and the losses for the 4th player are not multiplied either.
To be 100% clear, this has nothing to do with the K factor. The problem isn't that the sum is not 0, I'm fully aware that this is normal. The problem is how the extra player count adapter is handled AND that it is not even shown or explained.
It is just plain wrong in the example above, as there can be any reason why the first player would have a 0.75 factor but the last player wouldn't.
--------------
But it is also wrong more generally speaking.
For instance, in a 6th player Race for the galaxy game, the player number factor is balanced I think (same for 1st and last player, if I remember correctly) but that still isn't ok. It should really be the same for all players. As it is, it is a big ELO tax on higher ranked players playing with lower ranked people which is not a good thing in terms of website dynamics; you do not want to discourage high ranked players from playing with lower ranked players.
As a 500+ player in a 6 players RFTG against average players, you gain like 4 ELO when winning (a 6 players game) and lose like 12 for being second. That is NOT normal and this because the ELO score for the first player is much much more reduced than the score for the second player.
---------------------
My solution:
1) The hidden players# factor should not be hidden and be DISPLAYED in the ELO change summary.
2) The hidden players# factor should be the same for everyone in the game regardless of their final position in the game.
• ما هو متصفحك؟
Google Chrome v91
• ما هو نشاط اللعبة الذي أردت القيام به؟
n/a• ماذا تحاول أن تفعل لتحريك هذا العمل اللعبة؟
For instance:
boardgamearena.com/table?table=192563240
Hover the mouse over the 1st and and 4th player scores, do the math.
4 players games for downforce, if you do the sum, the ELO gains for the 1st player are multiplied in a hidden manner by 0.75
But the delta for the 2nd and 3rd players are not multiplied and the losses for the 4th player are not multiplied either.
To be 100% clear, this has nothing to do with the K factor. The problem isn't that the sum is not 0, I'm fully aware that this is normal. The problem is how the extra player count adapter is handled AND that it is not even shown or explained.
It is just plain wrong in the example above, as there can be any reason why the first player would have a 0.75 factor but the last player wouldn't.
--------------
But it is also wrong more generally speaking.
For instance, in a 6th player Race for the galaxy game, the player number factor is balanced I think (same for 1st and last player, if I remember correctly) but that still isn't ok. It should really be the same for all players. As it is, it is a big ELO tax on higher ranked players playing with lower ranked people which is not a good thing in terms of website dynamics; you do not want to discourage high ranked players from playing with lower ranked players.
As a 500+ player in a 6 players RFTG against average players, you gain like 4 ELO when winning (a 6 players game) and lose like 12 for being second. That is NOT normal and this because the ELO score for the first player is much much more reduced than the score for the second player.
---------------------
My solution:
1) The hidden players# factor should not be hidden and be DISPLAYED in the ELO change summary.
2) The hidden players# factor should be the same for everyone in the game regardless of their final position in the game.
• ماذا حدث عند محاولة القيام بهذا (رسالة خطأ ، رسالة شريط حالة اللعبة ، ...)؟
• ما هو متصفحك؟
Google Chrome v91
• في أي خطوة من اللعبة حدثت المشكلة (ما هو تعليمة اللعبة الحالية)؟
n/a• ماذا حدث عند محاولة إجراء هذه الحركة داخل اللعبة (رسالة خطأ ، رسالة شريط حالة اللعبة ، ...)؟
For instance:
boardgamearena.com/table?table=192563240
Hover the mouse over the 1st and and 4th player scores, do the math.
4 players games for downforce, if you do the sum, the ELO gains for the 1st player are multiplied in a hidden manner by 0.75
But the delta for the 2nd and 3rd players are not multiplied and the losses for the 4th player are not multiplied either.
To be 100% clear, this has nothing to do with the K factor. The problem isn't that the sum is not 0, I'm fully aware that this is normal. The problem is how the extra player count adapter is handled AND that it is not even shown or explained.
It is just plain wrong in the example above, as there can be any reason why the first player would have a 0.75 factor but the last player wouldn't.
--------------
But it is also wrong more generally speaking.
For instance, in a 6th player Race for the galaxy game, the player number factor is balanced I think (same for 1st and last player, if I remember correctly) but that still isn't ok. It should really be the same for all players. As it is, it is a big ELO tax on higher ranked players playing with lower ranked people which is not a good thing in terms of website dynamics; you do not want to discourage high ranked players from playing with lower ranked players.
As a 500+ player in a 6 players RFTG against average players, you gain like 4 ELO when winning (a 6 players game) and lose like 12 for being second. That is NOT normal and this because the ELO score for the first player is much much more reduced than the score for the second player.
---------------------
My solution:
1) The hidden players# factor should not be hidden and be DISPLAYED in the ELO change summary.
2) The hidden players# factor should be the same for everyone in the game regardless of their final position in the game.
• ما هو متصفحك؟
Google Chrome v91
• يرجى وصف مشكلة العرض. إذا كان لديك لقطة شاشة لهذا الخطأ (ممارسة جيدة) ، يمكنك استخدام Imgur.com لتحميله ونسخ / لصق الرابط هنا.
n/a• ما هو متصفحك؟
Google Chrome v91
• يرجى نسخ / لصق النص المعروض باللغة الإنجليزية بدلاً من لغتك. إذا كان لديك لقطة شاشة لهذا الخطأ (ممارسة جيدة) ، يمكنك استخدام Imgur.com لتحميله ونسخ / لصق الرابط هنا.
n/a• هل هذا النص متاح في translation system ؟ إذا كانت الإجابة بنعم ، فهل تمت ترجمتها لأكثر من 24 ساعة؟
For instance:
boardgamearena.com/table?table=192563240
Hover the mouse over the 1st and and 4th player scores, do the math.
4 players games for downforce, if you do the sum, the ELO gains for the 1st player are multiplied in a hidden manner by 0.75
But the delta for the 2nd and 3rd players are not multiplied and the losses for the 4th player are not multiplied either.
To be 100% clear, this has nothing to do with the K factor. The problem isn't that the sum is not 0, I'm fully aware that this is normal. The problem is how the extra player count adapter is handled AND that it is not even shown or explained.
It is just plain wrong in the example above, as there can be any reason why the first player would have a 0.75 factor but the last player wouldn't.
--------------
But it is also wrong more generally speaking.
For instance, in a 6th player Race for the galaxy game, the player number factor is balanced I think (same for 1st and last player, if I remember correctly) but that still isn't ok. It should really be the same for all players. As it is, it is a big ELO tax on higher ranked players playing with lower ranked people which is not a good thing in terms of website dynamics; you do not want to discourage high ranked players from playing with lower ranked players.
As a 500+ player in a 6 players RFTG against average players, you gain like 4 ELO when winning (a 6 players game) and lose like 12 for being second. That is NOT normal and this because the ELO score for the first player is much much more reduced than the score for the second player.
---------------------
My solution:
1) The hidden players# factor should not be hidden and be DISPLAYED in the ELO change summary.
2) The hidden players# factor should be the same for everyone in the game regardless of their final position in the game.
• ما هو متصفحك؟
Google Chrome v91
• يرجى توضيح اقتراحك بدقة وإيجاز بحيث يكون من السهل قدر الإمكان فهم ما تعنيه.
n/a• ما هو متصفحك؟
Google Chrome v91
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- هل حلَت F5 المشكلة؟
- هل ظهرت المشكلة عدة مرات؟ كل مرة؟ بطريقة عشوائية؟
- إذا كان لديك لقطة شاشة لهذا الخطأ (ممارسة جيدة) ، يمكنك استخدام Imgur.com لتحميله ونسخ / لصق الرابط هنا.